tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2425346921966365551.post4203663489696294280..comments2024-03-25T19:07:29.729+00:00Comments on Steve's Bus & Train Page: Are The Railways Going DOO-lally?Steve Whttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06852377706742868978noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2425346921966365551.post-32776490986457843782016-12-25T13:56:24.066+00:002016-12-25T13:56:24.066+00:00I'd disagree that Nigel Harris and Rail are im...I'd disagree that Nigel Harris and Rail are impartial. Consistently pro operator/private sector. They're clearly reliant upon a positive relationship with train operator for news stories. Similarly, I'd suggest that train companies account for a considerable amount of Rails advertising revenue. The tone of rail contrasts sharply with that of The Railway Magazine (which present facts but leaves readers to make up their own minds).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2425346921966365551.post-21438710316616185252016-12-24T13:14:26.671+00:002016-12-24T13:14:26.671+00:00It is all about changing the role of the Conductor...It is all about changing the role of the Conductor.guard, removing their safety critical status, reducing their salary accordingly and no guarantees as to job future after current franchise. All well and good to say not removing second person from the train but they missed the crucial word - YET!Steve Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06852377706742868978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2425346921966365551.post-171338331258914092016-12-24T13:07:20.626+00:002016-12-24T13:07:20.626+00:00On the Electrostars the driver opens the doors and...On the Electrostars the driver opens the doors and Conductor closes - same on Networkers. Only on Pacers and Sprinters do guards release the doors.Steve Whttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06852377706742868978noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2425346921966365551.post-27282421881661444422016-12-24T11:25:08.945+00:002016-12-24T11:25:08.945+00:00...and it's DCO (driver controlled operation) ......and it's DCO (driver controlled operation) which is at issue rather than DOO (driver only operation).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2425346921966365551.post-32067469332051675242016-12-24T11:20:22.042+00:002016-12-24T11:20:22.042+00:00I suggest everyone reads Nigel Harris' excelle...I suggest everyone reads Nigel Harris' excellent editorial in the current "Rail" magazine; unbiased, factual reporting which sets out why Southern are in the pickle they're in. And this is not about removing the second person from the train other than in exceptional circumstances in order to avoid a cancellation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2425346921966365551.post-66776116503157226842016-12-21T08:45:50.269+00:002016-12-21T08:45:50.269+00:00And one mustn't forget that Southern has a uni...And one mustn't forget that Southern has a unique franchise in which the profits (and, presumably, losses) are taken by the Government. To me it seems like a sort of half-nationalised, half-privatised affair - and that the Government is hardly a neutral player. See this article from the "Independent": http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/southern-rail-strike-why-has-it-happened-explained-london-trains-doors-dispute-a7471381.html.Andrew Kleissnernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2425346921966365551.post-25557491187912982062016-12-20T16:07:07.122+00:002016-12-20T16:07:07.122+00:00Like many rail passengers, I'm sure, feel much...Like many rail passengers, I'm sure, feel much safer travelling on a train with a guard/conductor. Sadly this dispute is not about the railways or the interests of the travelling public. It reflects a government, who in recent months have moved even further to the right, and a Prime Minister who models herself on Thatcher. May wants to do what Thatcher didn't and fatally weaken or completely destroy the rail unions. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2425346921966365551.post-8328621031717505142016-12-20T15:44:33.695+00:002016-12-20T15:44:33.695+00:00In reply to Anonymous above on the Merseyrail inci...In reply to Anonymous above on the Merseyrail incident, here is an extract from the report on a similar accident at Hayes & Harlington: "The passenger, who had arrived on the platform as the doors were about to close, had placed her hand between the closing door leaves. The train driver did not identify that the passenger was trapped and the train moved off, dragging the passenger along the platform. ... RAIB has concluded that after closing the doors of the train, the driver either did not make a final check that it was safe to depart, or that the check was insufficiently detailed to allow him to identify the trapped passenger". In fact the passenger thought that the doors would re-open if she placed her hand between them, while the believed that they would not close sufficiently for the train to take power - both were wrong.Andrew Kleissnernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2425346921966365551.post-60551050067310226352016-12-20T12:31:55.639+00:002016-12-20T12:31:55.639+00:00DOO is save much of the rail netork already uses...DOO is save much of the rail netork already uses id asnd the entire underground does and on the lice concerned with the cuent strike the second person is not even being removedAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2425346921966365551.post-2840740787654133332016-12-20T10:30:01.737+00:002016-12-20T10:30:01.737+00:00Here here well said. The worst thing is MerseyRail...Here here well said. The worst thing is MerseyRail are using an incident from a year or two back to justify moving over to DOO. The problem with that is that it occurred on a curved platform at the point at which a driver would no longer be paying much attention to the screens as the doors had been closed by that point.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2425346921966365551.post-13388187184462643702016-12-20T09:18:11.507+00:002016-12-20T09:18:11.507+00:00All fair comment. But sorry to p-on-the-party agai...All fair comment. But sorry to p-on-the-party again. It's all driven by the fares obsession. Throughout my life (and before it, and afterwards too, no doubt) the British have always wanted it, but not to pay for it once the bills come in. It isn't on. But we'll never learn. We never have. We think money grows on trees, as my parents used to put it.<br /><br />So we have a crap infrastructure legacy, muddle-and-make-do operations (and Brexit will be a complete mess too). Not the fault of the politicians, the Civil Servants, the Trade Unions, the Bankers, the lawyers, or any of the usual culprits: it's the rest of us.smurfukhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04812247601237248526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2425346921966365551.post-19970076950649631002016-12-20T08:14:57.156+00:002016-12-20T08:14:57.156+00:00The experience does vary. Some years ago I was on ...The experience does vary. Some years ago I was on a train from Cromer to Norwich when the conductor stayed in the cab for the entire journey, only emerging to check (and sell) tickets during the last 5 minutes or so. I wonder how much revenue was lost, if he did that regularly?<br /><br />Conversely I also remember chatting with a conductor on a mainline service who eventually managed to put two fare-evaders off at Colchester, delivering them into the hands of station staff who would make sure they didn't get back into the station for another 4 hours.<br /><br />And I've been on a South London train where a group of lads were deliberately trashing the next carriage. If I'd known the line well I'd have phoned 999, but I wasn't sure of the routing and the stations we were going to stop at. It was very frightening. But - as you hint - the same thing could have happened, even with a guard, on the non-gangwayed (but open) carriages of the DMUs I rode on every day in the 60s.<br /><br />I take the point about the driver being taken ill (though, with the line presumably track-circuited throughout, why did it take the signallers so long to realise that the train had stopped?) You may have read Adrian Vaughan's account of how he felt the railways had become more dangerous with the demise of old-fashioned signalman who would look out at passing trains for things such as missing tail-lamps, loose loads or open doors. Of course that was before things such as axle counters, central door locking, CCTV and continuous track-circuiting came in, so he may well have been right; one wonders though how much of a passing Pendolino could be "observed" by a signaller today!<br /><br />On the broader base, the issue asks whether Southern services ought to be considered "mainline" or "suburban"?Andrew Kleissnernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2425346921966365551.post-72104130308965322062016-12-20T06:12:42.510+00:002016-12-20T06:12:42.510+00:00Well written explanation in favour of a fully trai...Well written explanation in favour of a fully trained second member of staff on trains but I would wonder if having the driver open the doors might be good. Been on several trains recently where the conductor/guard/whatever was seen rushing to the nearest door a significant time after the train stopped. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09559382725130147445noreply@blogger.com